Jeff Rosner <sjrosner@mindspring.com>

Message Body:

I will send two additional messages with zipped directories for you...

MODEL PONZOL TENOR
I couldn't get a picture that shows the soldered toneholes on the Modell
Ponzol 97XXX tenor, but they are unmistakably soldered on...there is the lip
on the inside where the sheet metal edge is. You can even see some 'flux
rash' in a few places. The neck tenon is also about .1 mm larger than a Couf
Superba I SN802xx (about 28.0 mm as opposed to 27.9...for reference, most
modern Selmers and Yamahas are 27.4). Also, the bell on the Superba was
6.375" and the Ponzol is 6.437" (this is the largest bell I have ever
measured on a tenor...not that bigger is better). Note also the adjustable
palm keys and the G# 'helper' bar on the lower stack, exactly like the most
recent SX90R horns. I believe that the Ponzol is more like an SX90, but
should actually stand alone in the vintage chart, although to be honest, I
have only played SX90Rs briefly in music stores.

CONN 108M "DJH modified" alto
You are perhaps right about this horn, and I haven't been able to lay my
hands on a Superba alto to measure and compare. The bell dia is 5.219" if
anyone wants to compare. This was apparently an original gold-plated
horn...the gold has worn mostly off the bell and the silver underplate is
showing through...the plate on the keys is pretty intact. The main
distinction from the typical Superba that I can see is keywork...the true
Selmer-style tilting LH table and adjustable RH thumbrest set it apart, but
perhaps were added at the Conn factory (although Conn did not have any other
horns with sophisticated keywork EVER!!). Of course, the lady is a nice
touch...this one is a little more distinctive than my 12M. These toneholes
are true rolled. Even though I mainly play tenor and bari, this is my
favorite horn ever...it is a monster player!!

Pictures coming in the next two messages...jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Vintage Saxophone Gallery [mailto:mailto:saxpics@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2004 8:04 AM
To: sjrosner@mindspring.com
Subject: RE: Keilwerth page

What you're saying about the 108M would contradict what Peter Ponzol,
Keilwerth and my own observations say, i.e. that the 108M and H-Couf are
inherently different horns -- or that the Ponzol had soldered tone-rings.
However, do note that Mr. Ponzol did mention, in his interview, that he
experimented with different bow and bell combinations when he worked with
Keilwerth.  I'd think it more than possible that Keilwerth did make minor
alterations to each model throughout any model's lifetime, especially
considering their relatively low production numbers.

Because of Keilwerth's low production, I really don't think that a minor
keywork change is significant: if you look at my SML pages, I note, en
passant, that a lot of their horns had differences in keywork, but these
changes weren't always something that became permanent (i.e. carried on
throughout the model series or for at least used on more than a couple
horns) -- whereas, when I discuss the Super 20/Silver-Sonic, the keywork
changes ARE significant because the changes are "permanent".

If you're correct that you have horns that have different size
bore/bow/bells and/or tone rings before the SX90, that WOULD be significant.

Please also note that I changed very little text from my original Keilwerth
pages: I essentially added on to what I already had.  I didn't have THAT
much time :)

I don't think I've got any pictures from you.  I'd be interested in seeing
'em.  Please send to saxpics@x-mail.net.

>From: "Jeff Rosner" <sjrosner@mindspring.com>
>To: <saxpics@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Keilwerth page
>Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 21:13:56 -0700
>
>hey...me again...kool job on the Keilwerth pages, but you didn't fix one
>little point that I mentioned months ago (I know I sound like a whiner...)
>
>regarding the DJH modified:
>
>"I did a bit more research since then, though: these horns are nothing
more
>than Keilwerth H-Couf Superba I models, very similar to the Keilwerth Peter
>Ponzoll models, with different engraving. "
>
>I have a Conn 108M alto (DJH modified) and a tenor Modell Ponzol (one 'l')
>and have had several Superba I's through my shop, including one that I
>owned
>and played for awhile. The 108 and Ponzol are definitely different horns
>than the superba I or the Newking/Toneking. They are more similar to the
>SX90R horns. They have hinged LH tables (note pic at
>http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/conn/djh_modified/110m/custom_engraved/1
8
>654x/jvn15.jpg
>, and a larger bell than the earlier horns. Both of these are very heavy
>horns (especially the Conn, which is a monster player, my favorite alto
>ever
>anywhere), where the Superbas are pleasantly lightweight.  The neck curve
>on
>the tenors were different. The 108 and the Ponzol both have soldered-on
>tone
>hole rings, where the Superba and NK/TK both had actual rolled toneholes.
>I
>would call these transitional horns...I thought that I had sent you
>pictures
>of these horns...I can do that if you want
>
>jeff aka shmuelyosef
>"Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
>society." - Mark Twain
>  ____________________________________
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>|Jeff Rosner                         |
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