From: Stewart Milton/Chippenham [Stewart.Milton@westbrake.com] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:37 AM To: The Vintage Saxophone Gallery Subject: Re: Kohlert Sorry.... I wrote this reply last week, and it seems I didn't send it! Ah, thanks. Yes, Cybersax contradicts itself completely over the origin of these horns, but the attached e-mail excerpts attempt to explain at least some of the confusion.... My problem is that Bear seems to be almost the only guy who has published anything on the web regarding Kohlert... so over to you to get it right! I am very interested that you have come across the Lafleur Alliance before..... and tie it in with yet another manufacturer and such an early date. Boosey told me they were made by Amati..... and were not convinced that I had a Kohlert 'Lafleur' at all! They claim to have used the name through the 50's and 60's.... Was Lafleur an independant company pre-Boosey? Do you have any info regarding Kohlert serial numbers.... my 63xxx horn is probably quite a bit later that Bear's 43xxx, which he says was new in 1960 unless for some reason the Stencils had different numbering.... quite possible I suppose. It seems from what I've learnt so far that there are some numbers as high as 85000 out there on Kohlerts.... which are maybe as late as '75. I'm very very interested to see your info when it arrives on site...... or even a sneak preview before you publish it. It's very frustrating for me that you know more than you're telling! (I promise I'm not researching my own website..... just trying to establish that I have a 'credible' saxophone, and how old it is. Trouble is the more I find out the more fascinated I get!) You've probably seen it, but this article's quite interesting... though not specifically about saxes... http://idrs.colorado.edu/Publications/DR/DR13.1/DR13.1.Lein.Kohlert.html Bear seems to be of the opinion that these instruments are of the same quality/capability as the classic Keilwerths, SMLs, Conns and Selmers of this world.... would you agree? It seems unlikely, but then I guess that was the scene with SML a few years back? The attached pic is not my sax..... but is identical as far as I can see. (Embedded image moved to file: pic18467.pcx) Best regards Stewart Milton |---------+---------------------------> | | "The Vintage | | | Saxophone | | | Gallery" | | | | | | | | | 01/29/03 05:19 | | | PM | | | Please respond | | | to "The Vintage | | | Saxophone | | | Gallery" | | | | |---------+---------------------------> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: "Stewart Milton/Chippenham" | | cc: | | Subject: Re: Kohlert | >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| It's gonna take me some time to wade through all that! cybersax.com is a bit light on history and is totally inaccurate from time to time. I've offered to help correct some of their info, but they have decided not to take me up on that offer. Julius Keilwerth definitely did work for Kohlert for a time. This has been confirmed by the Keilwerth organization (currently www.boosey.com). Keilwerth also used to have horns manufactured in Czech. under the name of "Toneking". Keilwerth also sold saxophone bodies to a variety of companies in Germany and Czech. that then affixed their own keywork to the instruments. I've seen some comparisions of Keilwerth horns side-by-side with some Kohlerts and there was a 100% correlation. I'm going to write some stuff on the Kohlerts in the relatively near future, but I haven't correlated all my data: I've got a bunch. I also want to talk with the folks at Keilwerth a bit more. Regarding the Alliance, I have noticed a strong similarity of some of these horns and "Rev. A" SML's. I strongly doubt that there is some SML-Keilwerth connection here, considering these horns were made in the early years of WWII and France and Germany were enemies. Keep watching my website: updates are forthcoming. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Milton/Chippenham" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 3:11 AM Subject: Kohlert > Hi there, thanks for all the work you do on the webpage...... lots of fun. > > My name's Stewart Milton, and I play tenor sax (and clarinet) in a > church band, here in UK. > > I have a tenor saxophone which I bought several years ago very secondhand, > and had repolished, laquered, and repadded (before I knew any > better.... I > might do it a bit differently these days, but then maybe not!) The > bell reads 'Alliance' and 'J.R. Lafleur and Sons, London, Paris, New > York' The > top joint of the body contains the words 'made in Germany', serial > number is 63376. The body is laquered brass, the keys are nickel > plated. It has rolled tone holes. > > After several years of asking too many people, I finally found > pictures of > my sax on your website (thank you, thank you)..... under the name Kohlert. > A quick search turned up some (slightly confusing) information on > cybersax.com, which also says some rather nice things about the instruments > from this manufacturer, and aligns them with SML, Keilwerth, and Conn (Chu > &10M era), in one case suggesting they were stencilled by > Keilwerth.... and > even suggesting that a good one will 'blow away' a Selmer MkVI or Ref > 54, and was as good as an Keilwerth SX90R! (I couldn't comment on > this, it's the only sax I've ever played....but it's a nice thought!) > > I've had a bit of a chat with Bear at cybersax, and gleaned about as > much as I can from him, but even though he's owned a Kohlert for 40 > years it seems the history as he knows it is a bit sketchy. > > I was wondering if you could shed any more light on Kohlert as a > manufacturer, possibly confirm or deny any links between them with SML and > Keilwerth, and maybe add your own comments as to the quality of these > instruments compared to these makes and the Selmers. > > If you're interested all the relevant info I've got so far from Bear > is attached.... > > > Best regards > > Stewart Milton > -- > Westinghouse Brakes (UK) Ltd. > Foundry Lane, Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JB > Phone +44 1249 442851 > Fax +44 1249 442600 > mailto:stewart.milton@westbrake.com > http://www.knorr-bremse.com > > > (See attached file: Kohlert.doc) > ________________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet. 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